Wednesday, June 24, 2020

65. A RELIGIOUS TURNING POINT ... 6




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HOW DO I LOOK AT BIBLICAL PARABLES


HOW DO I LOOK AT BIBLICAL PARABLES

”Our Lord made ready use of the parabolic method of teaching to the extent that Mark comments "but without a parable spake he not unto them" (4:34)”.
So goes the story about our biblical parables. Jesus on his preaching line took up so many parables - some understandable, some are not; some at par with humane justice and some are not. But since it was all from the mouth of God each one is always praised and complied with by the believers. But for one who went out of faith like me, so many questions on the rightness of the parables and their intended objectives may arise. Simple acceptance of all the words in Bible is meant only for the believers.
I quote some parables here and give my perception of them, which are, as far as I am concerned, very humane in nature.

PRODIGAL SON
The story of the prodigal son,(Luke 15:11-32), a very famous and well known biblical parable, stands as a good example for me. No need to elaborate the story; everyone knows it. Normally we accept the end of the story, even praising the all-forgiving-dad. But for me there is a question. Had I been the father, I would have asked my prodigal son to be under the tutelage of my elder son till he proves his repentance. That would correct my younger son and honour my elder. But what the father of the story did actually provoked his ever dependable and sincere elder son.
//“The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’//
This is what the elder son felt. None knows what happened when father justified his celebration for his prodigal son. I personally feel the unreasonable father would lose both his sons soon. A very bad managerial error, the dad had made. Reward should go to the right person and punishment should go to wrong character. Only that would infuse real justice in the minds of both the sons.

VINEYARD PARABLE
Almost this same type of judgment happens in another vineyard parable.  Matthew 20:1-16. Master fixes up salary and asks labourers at the early hours of the day with specific wages. Then he employs labourers till evening at various different times. At the end of the day he pays them equally. Very natural for the early comers to murmur. But the boss defends his choice of paying equal amounts: " ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you.  Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’.
My contention is, if the boss wants to be this generous, he could have extended more generosity to the early workers, paying them more than a denarius. He could have made all happier. I had been professionally a teacher and so my judgment is based on how a teacher should evaluate his students. I should give them marks according to their efforts and results. I should not give centum to all my students, irrespective of their achievements. This would hurt a real sincere worker and all his motivation would be thoroughly spoiled. The following interpretation for this parable does not cut ice for me: "Some who are faithful with the small opportunities that God gives them, now “last” in the eyes of people, might receive more reward than one who is “first” in the eyes of people but who is unfaithful with the bigger opportunities God has given him".

WHEAT AND WEEDS
The sower has sown good seed in his field for a healthy wheat harvest. But in the dark of night an enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat. "So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared as well" (13:24-26).
It is interpreted that the good seeds are the children of the kingdom; the weeds are the children of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age. Jesus says that the reapers -- not the slaves -- will take care of this at harvest time. "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 
So god allows wantonly the evil to grow among the good ones and then punishes. Poor logic. God allows the bad to exist, allows them grow, but then at the end throw them into an eternal fire! I don’t find evn human justice in this.

 PARABLE OF NET
Matthew 13:47  47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

It just shows explicitly how and what a MERCIFUL god he is! Why are bad fishes bad and how? Who made them bad? At least in human beings one can keep talking about 'free will' and say that a man has to choose the right thing and all that logic. But in fishes how come some are good and some are bad. Did they sin and become bad?! My question:  How come a merciful god could create an eternal blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (I have been having this question as my STANDARD QUESTION since I feel creation of an eternal hell fire to punish short lived men sounds not only logical but also humanly irrational.)  And how bad fishes or bad men came into being. As in the previous parable of Wheats and Weeds, the weed is ALLOWED to grow and finally is thrown into everlasting hell. Are the weeds so sinful? Weeds are not useful 'directly' for man; that's all. Not 'sinful' anyway!  

SEEDS & SOIL
Of course some parables would be so nice and meaningful and simply straight.  Math 13:18-23 - It is about sowing seeds.  Seeds fallen on right soil would grow well unlike those fallen on hard rocks.
So simple, straight and clean.

CORRECT FIRST THYSELF
There is one other parable, again a simple and effective, statement: . “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? (Math 7:1-5)

LAMP ON THE HILL
 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

But most of the parables are not like this. Jesus has to give some interpreation for such difficult parables.

Mat 13:10-12
Matthew 13:9-15 
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
This 12th verse is still a mystery for me. I really don’t get the meaning of it. It also sounds to me bad since whoever has, would be given more; and whatsoever does not have, shall be taken away. It sounds almost like: make rich richer; make poor poorer!! Is it right? Does the parable mean this?

RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
Luke 16:19-31
 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

//remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things,// what does bible say? No rich man can enter heaven. Does the bible say poverty is the ladder to heaven.. leave alone things they had done on earth. I really don’t know why all religions keep poverty always on a high pedestal'? Is it for attracting even the poor people to become the believers of gods, as Osho suggested. Here the Lazarus did not go to the lap of Abraham not for any good deeds he did; just because he was poor (who knows how he became a poor!) The rich man, it seems, sinned by wearing a finely stitched suit, driving in his Rolls Royce! So he goes to hell, not for doing sinful things but living a luxurious life (who knows how hard he had to work to reach that level?)




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Thursday, March 12, 2020

64.. MY RELIGIOUS TURNING POINT .... 5




LINKS TO  POSTS ON - MY RELIGIOUS TURNING POINT

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RED COLOURED PARTS are of  my personal opinions....



My school and church were in the same campus and I grew up as a campus kid. Most of my activities were in the campus. Early morning appa woke me up and I had to attend the second mass at 5.30 am. After the service it was my duty to get daily milk from the farm in the Jesuits house behind the church.  This life continued mostly all through my school and college days.

During schooling for catholic students,  we used to have catechism classes where we were taught the 'history of church' and all that. Many stories were taught in our catechism classes. I remember most of them very well. I would give just two examples: It was the 'story' about the communion. In catholic faith the ' consecrated host' changes into the 'flesh of Jesus' during the mass. A nun had a doubt on this and one day she bit the host, which is a very thin bread made of wheat. She had the doubt whether it had really become the flesh of Jesus. When she bit it, blood started flowing from the host in her mouth. Only after great repentance and weeping of the nun it stopped. This story was to make our faith stronger. This story was routinely given to kids just before they went for receiving the holy sacrament of communion for the first time. Later, this story faded from catechism classes.

 The second teaching was about  birth control. In those story days Catholic Church  very strongly condemned any method of family control. Even following the safe days of ovulation was considered a sin. To convince us, another story was given. A new child is born with one mouth to feed and two hands to work for the bread. This was to convince us against birth control. It took us more than twenty to thirty years to understand that the 'two hands' would take at least a quarter century to earn bread. This story is also lost in the course of time. Nowadays they don’t teach these 'kid stories' to children. A sign of modernization! Nowadays no church is against birth control. It has been sidelined now.

Another interesting thing of my school days was the annual religious retreats organized by our school. It would normally start on a Friday evening. There would be a sort of hourly sermons. Normally the first sermon would be about the rules and regulation of the retreat and about what to do and what not to do. And then would come the serious sermons. The very second sermon on the Friday evening after supper would invariably revolve around "HELL"! It would be terribly threatening.  Elaborate description of an eternal hell and the terrific satanic tortures there.  This would terrify us so much that a cloud of fear would follow us to our bed. So normally on that night there would not be any catcalls or other pranks by us. Since this used to be a rare occasion for us to be with our friends normally we would be tempted to play pranks in our gang. This might happen in the next Saturday night and not on Friday night, since we would still hear the tik-tok sound of the "eternal clock" of the Hell! No nerve to play games then! Of course within one day this would slowly fade away and in the next night the supervisors would face hard time to keep us well behaved!

Another important thing of those days, we used to be regular in attending masses everyday in the church. So next best thing for the 'pious' boys like us was to be altar boys. In sacristy, there would be a spacious room with the red-white robes in all sizes. The altar boys first had to memorise Latin prayers. Well, in those days mass was done in Latin. Over the course of time it switched over to mother tongues. If we were able to render the Latin prayers to the person  in charge of sacristy - nearly four pages of Latin in Tamil script - we would be eligible as altar boys. We, then could choose the loose red-white robe and be with the priest in the altar during the mass. I too was an altar boy.  It was then considered a very big privilege for us. Such altar boys used to say that they would all become priests later in their lives. I too had that resolve for some years.

When I started distancing from my faith, among the many questions I raised, one was on Hell and Heaven. Hell seemed very illogical. Hell is considered eternal. On  one hand, Christianity claims at high pitch that their god is merciful. On the other hand it talks about an eternal hell, punishment for the sins of a man in his life time. There is not even any 'human justice' in that. Man for his sins in his short life had to be in the eternal hell, suffering. They also keep saying that Jesus came to redeem us for our sins. Incongruity at its height! It was simply an arrangement - man has to be cautioned - so hell is there. Man has to be made to feel good - so heaven is there! Some hope has to be given - so the merciful messiah is there. Even the Hindu concept of many births before Mukti at least has some human reasoning. In Christianity, there is no such thing. For the sin of a man, he should be in the painful hell for ETERNITY.  People have been arguing for long to do away with capital punishment. By Bible,  a merciful god has a hell made ready for sinners.

Many a time I have found Christians relinquish the Old Testament when I asked some pointed questions about the ridiculous and sensual stories from it. They would say adamantly that the New Testament is their book and we have to go by that. Naturally at such junctures my question would be: why then have the Old Testament as your religious book?  The same escapism they adopt when questions on Hell are raised. They will try to make it light and wriggle out from such a question. My question is so simple: HOW A MERCIFUL GOD CAN CREATE AN ETERNAL HELL. No meaning in denying hell because there are many very clear verses about hell in the Bible.

Not only Christianity, all the three Abrahmic religions also talk about "Seven Heavens"! This concept might have been derived from the ancient Mesopotamian religions. This concept is also found in Hinduism and Jainism. The 'seven' may correspond to the seven planets known to antiquity.

BIBLICAL HEAVEN:
And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?  (Does this not sound so funny ? Almost like a ordinary human vision .. big mansion .. so many rooms. Even preacher Dinakaran - who visited heaven weekly for Sunday breakfast with Jesus, never revealed anything like this!! please have a look at :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8InbUvICDs  )
Luke 16:23 
And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

A PARTIALITY
Matthew 12:32 
 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (What a partiality in the Trinity! Why one member of the trinity - the Holy Spirit - should be valued more than Jesus - the Son of Man??)

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire .

Revelation 21: describes the City of Heaven -  that the height, length, and width of the walls are of equal dimensions – as it was with the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle and First Temple – and they measure 12,000 furlongs (which is approximately 1500.3 miles, or 1 furlong = approx 220 yards)  (This "data" also very much stands like a human imagination / invention! Anyway I fear / wonder - this Heaven is so tiny and small comparing the human populations of present, past and future. Can we - I mean the believers - all get some accommodation there? It is really a Hellish problem!)

Since the concept of hell and heaven were so much discussed from the beginning of the Church, lately some attempts were made  to distance Christianity from this hellish or heavenly problem!  (Like me,)  the conscience of some Christians was there from the beginning of Chrisitianity, who find it difficult to reconcile the existence of a just, loving God with a doctrine that dooms billions of people to eternal punishment.

In theological circles this doctrine is known as Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT).  Critics fault it for its lack of proportion. Why would a loving God punish a single lifetime of sin with endless lifetimes of torture? And, among sinners, does an adulterer merit the same punishment as a murderer? And what about the billions of people whose only sin was to follow a different faith?  

In its earliest years, Christianity didn’t have a consensus on the nature of hell.  Earliest theologians were on two sides: one is UNIVERSALISM (Hell and the punishment there is NOT eternal.) and second is ANNIHILATIONISM (The 'mortal soul' will die and fade away.)
These two views are quoted here:

Origen Adamantius, a third-century theologian, believed the wicked were punished after death, but only long enough for their souls to repent and be restored to their original state of purity. This doctrine, known as universalism, envisioned that everyone—including Satan—would eventually be redeemed and reunited with God.

Contemporary theologians generally credit Irenaeus of Lyons, a second-century bishop, as the intellectual forefather of annihilationism. In his seminal five-volume work, Against Heresies, he emphasized that the soul is not inherently immortal—eternal life would be bestowed upon the good with the resurrection of Christ, while the wicked would be left to die and fade from existence.

Augustine of Hippo and his book, City of God, published in A.D. 426, that set the tone for official doctrine over the next 1,500 years. Hell existed not to reform or deter sinners, he argued. Its primary purpose was to satisfy the demands of justice. Augustine believed in the literal existence of a lake of fire, where “by a miracle of their most omnipotent Creator, can burn without being consumed, and suffer without dying.”  

"Everlasting torment is intolerable from a moral point of view because it makes God into a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for victims whom he does not even allow to die," wrote the late Clark Pinnock, an influential evangelical theologian.  

 Edward Fudge, whose 1982 book, The Fire That Consumes, is widely regarded as the scholarly work that jump-started the current debate.  A new generation of evangelical scholars are challenging the idea that sinners are doomed to eternal torment— and traditionalists are pushing back.

POPE FRANCIS (ALLEGED) STATEMENT ON HELL
Eugenio Scalfari — a longtime friend and intellectual sparring partner of Pope Francis and an atheist.

Speaking to this newspaper’s founder, journalist and atheist Scalfari, Francis was quoted as saying of those who die in a state of mortal sin: “They are not punished. Those who repent obtain God’s forgiveness and take their place among the ranks of those who contemplate him, yhose who do not repent and cannot be forgiven disappear. A hell doesn’t exist, the disappearance of sinning souls exists.”

However Vatican became serious after this statement of Pope got published. The chief communications secretary, Dario Vigano, resigned under pressure.

In short, whether people say yes or no to hell, still such things  exist in the Bible. Theologians, because of their conscience cannot ignore what is said in the Bible.

In addition to hell and heaven, Roman Catholic Christians  believe in purgatory. It is mostly by their own Biblical interpretations. (In my childhood,  purgatory was given importance in our prayers too. Now I have found that Catholics had dropped this concept, like what they did to family planning. There is also another mystic thing in catholic church. it is "limbo" - a place for unbaptised infant souls. This has also  lost its importance in due course of time in catholic teaching.


P.S.
In Christianity more discussions are on hell. While in Islam it is their heaven or Jannah which is much talked about subject - especially  between the believers (mumins) and non-believers (kafirs).  

Al-Qur'an 44:51-57
"Verily, the muttaqun (the pious), will be in place of security (Jannah). Among Gardens and springs dressed in fine silk and (also) in thick silk, facing each other. So (it will be). And We shall marry them to hur (fair females) with wide, lovely eyes. 

Al-Qur'an 83:22-28
They will be given to drink of pure sealed wine.

Of course, more that the wine in golden cups, getting a share of 72 ever-virginal houris (fair females with large eyes) is more tempting ..!



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Sunday, February 23, 2020

63. MY RELIGIOUS TURNING POINT ... 4




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LINKS TO  POSTS ON - MY RELIGIOUS TURNING POINT





We inherit our religion from our parents. May be there are some exceptions. But normally this is true - religion is birth or family-related or inherited. Therefore, we imbibe the religious faith and rituals from very early age. Normally what is imposed by the family and the background gets deep into our mind as very strong and unquestionable faith. As I said earlier, even questioning this faith is normally considered very uncouth and unnecessary. Normally people do  not dare to do it. They always walk on the well-trodden good old path never wave from it. It was so for me too, but only in the beginning.

When I started questioning my own faith, it was after a long struggle with my internal force. I thought in those days how come a very normal guy like me can question the Christian faith while I see day in and day out so many scholastic theologians. When those knowledgeable persons accept faith so completely, how can I refute the faith? It was very hard to come over this stumbling block. But when I started questioning and finding my own truth, things started becoming brighter and easier. The very first question was about the free will of man and the will of god. I could find the incongruity of both of these  going together. I, though very hard in the beginning, accepted my conclusions on free will as stated earlier (in previous post). Then came the second important question. Christians always have a very strong conviction that prayer can make them achieve their wishes / desire.. Prayer was considered as a powerful tool. I questioned that. I found prayer and predeterminism  of god were again incongruous with each other. I found prayer only as a psychotherapy and not more than that. It may give solace and some peace to human mind. There it stops. Contrary to what  Christians believed prayer may not be a successful tool.

After I crossed over those first two hurdles, I overcame the usual reluctance to probe further. Rather I became more emboldened to question anything in religion. It became an academic interest. All inhibitions disappeared which I had in the initial stages. During this time, I set my own "Ten Commandments" as my disciplinary code. Of these ten, the second commandment was: "YOU OPEN YOUR OWN EYES". This commandment gave me the strength and guidance. I made up my mind: anything can be questioned; better I open my own eyes and start seeing things in that new light. These ideas filled my questioning, hungry mind.

One thing became very certain. Whatever may be the religion, a person born and brought up in that religion always strongly feels that his religion is the TRUE religion and starts to look down upon the other religions. This animosity for other religions is widely prevalent in the three Abrahamic religions - Judaism, Christianity and Islam. These three religions strongly emphasize this superiority and the people in these religions grow with this idea strongly rooted in their minds. They always keep their chins up thinking their religion is the true religion and their god is the only true god. They never think twice before insulting other religions. They call all the other religions as pagan religions. Quotes to prove this:

Isaiah 46:9    
remember the former things of old;
                              for I am God, and there is no other;
                              I am God, and there is none like me,

1 Timothy 6:3-4.
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus    Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions . . . 
Matthew 7:26 
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

This continuous search made me form a hypothesis: It is perfectly correct if a person says that his mother is a good cook; but if he says that his mother is the ONLY good cook … well, then he has to be vehemently protested and corrected. This same feeling persists among the highly religious people: they claim only their religion is true; and their god is only true god.  They never hesitate to insult or degrade other religious faiths. We love our parents. We love them despite their shortcomings because they are our parents. This should be the mentality regarding our religions too. Your religion is good since you were brought up in it. In the same way for others their religion is good. This should be the real spirit of religious acceptance. This is much better than the often much used term, "religious tolerance". But in fact most of us are unable to see beyond our religions and faith. We are simply taught that religions other than yours are false or wrong.  In reality it is very hard to come out of this entrenched concept and almost impossible to have a proper religious tolerance and acceptance.

With this equanimity on different religions, I started to go further in my search. The very first thing was the loss of faith in my religion, Christianity. Christians attach so much importance to faith. The religion itself never encourages "questioning" faith; it prefers utmost faith, never questioning anything in the religious concepts, whether it is the holy trinity, the birth of Jesus from a virgin, his crucifixion and resurrection. Even the parables in Bible which were all praised so often became highly questionable for me. I questioned even the very wisdom of those parables. The countless 'miracles' postulated by Christianity became questions to me. The list is long. Let us consider them one by one.










Sunday, February 16, 2020

62. QUESTION ON PRAYER ...3

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ஏனைய பதிவுகள்:





QUESTION ON PRAYER

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RELIGION is a strong castle on a solid rock, the FAITH. Pillars of religion are always deep rooted into that rock and they are unassailable, unshakable and inscrutable for the BELIEVERS. What I did was testing the pillars one by one. When I tested the pillar on - FREEWILL - it wobbled.
My conviction is that free will of man and omniscience of an almighty would never stand together. Any one of these two should alone stand. If there is omniscience of god, free will becomes meaningless and defunct and vice versa. This tussle I had explained in the previous post. That led to me to a conclusion against what Christianity says.

The first defiance of my faith has pushed me to a next question: Question on prayer.

It is always said by prayer you can 'make' god do what you ask for. Prayers are considered by Christians
only as a tool to get the mercy of god. It is stressed that our daily life should be filled with prayers. But to me there was one another incongruity - who stands as the winner - will of god or human prayers? The following quotes proclaim the supremacy of god and his will.

 Proverbs 19:21

“Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.”

Proverbs 21:1

“The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will.”

Luke 12:7 
 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore …
Romans 9: 18 - 20
Everything depends on what God decides to do, and he can either have pity on people or make them stubborn.
Someone may ask, “How can God blame us, if he makes us behave in the way he wants us to?” 20 But, my friend, I ask, “Who do you think you are to question God? Does the clay have the right to ask the potter why he shaped it the way he did?

Daniel 2:21

“He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding.”

Above quotes stress that everything is under the control and wish of god. God's omniscience gets fully established by these quotes. But there are another set of quotes wherein god's will gets deviated by ther prayers of believers.

Matthew 7:7  
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

 Proverbs 15:29
The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous.
Mother Teresa
"God shapes the world by prayer. The more praying there is in the world the better the world will be, the mightier the forces against evil."
Thomas Watson
Prayer delights God's ear; it melts His heart; and opens His hand. God cannot deny a praying soul.

These above quotes show how god yields to prayers.

In our childhood days, we were always taught that a crying hungry child alone gets fed by its parents; in the same way by praying you get things from god. More so we were taught that prayer always wins. 'Victory through prayer' has been the often heard saying of Christian believers. Early morning prayer, fasting prayer, whole night prayer .. varieties of prayers among believers.

These beliefs  raised a question. Prayer is defined as a communication with god. You ask for it , you would get it. This is what most Christians feel and believe in. In continuation of my question of free will and predeterminism, god, the omniscient  knows what would happen, when  it would happen and all. Things were pre-decided. If so, how come a prayer from a believer would make any difference in his will? Things should happen as decided by god. So what do we get out of prayer. With or without prayers omniscient's decision or 'His Will' would be carried out. Even by praying a believer cannot make a dent in the predecided plan of god. Right? If so why prayers then?! Let all be His will ! 

In a light hearted vein, I thought of the prayers of Jesus. Jesus had been shown in Bible praying. But we never knew what he prayed for. But in Gethsemane he prays to relieve him of the crucifixion. Only time when we know what he prayed. Was it heard? Did his prayers change anything? If it is "but as thou will"    (Mat 26:39) .. why pray then?

·         Matthew 26:39  39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
·         Mark 14:36  Abba,[a] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”
·         Luke 2242 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

Jesus prayed like this 'to take this cup from him'. But god didn't !

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P.S.
Well, when I posted the above ideas in Tamil in my blog, surprisingly I got a comment from a 'fundamental' muslim that prayers of Prophet Esa were really heard by Allah. Rest of the story goes like this: Gibrail (Gabriel) comes before Esa in Gethsemane and commands Esa to run when he would be about to be arrested by Roman soldiers. They would run through a cave. During this, Esa had to scoop a handful of sand and hurl it on the face of a chasing soldier. Then, that soldier gets the face of Esa and he gets arrested and goes through the whole of Calvary and final crucifixion. The 'real' Esa escapes and stands on a stone at the opening  of the cave. From there he is taken to Jannah or heaven by angels. So prayers of Esa were heard and he gets what he prayed for!
Hope this post script would be interestingly new to many Chrisitians.





Friday, March 22, 2019

61. THE FIRST QUESTION ON RELIGION(S) FREE WILL ...2



ஏனைய பதிவுகள்:






THE FIRST QUESTION ON  RELIGION(S)

LINKS TO  POSTS ON - MY RELIGIOUS TURNING POINT




I was a very "regular"christian. From childhood I was brought up in that environment. I never missed Sunday masses. As a catholic quite fervently attended novena. Attending novena for Mary of Perpetual Help on Saturday evenings was so regular for years in my twenties. Wearing my religion on  my sleeve was then a pride. I defended Christianity and its principles and dogmas even with those who could have their negative weight on my life. My god was my first. That gave me that much audacity. I felt that i should defend Him. I thought it was my birthright as a christian. Regular to the weekly confessionals till my late thirties. There used to be some questions, now and then, but immediately threw them off. Because, i thought, while so many learned people were deep believers how could be a half-baked guy like me could raise questions on religion. Still the number of questions started to grow more and more. So i started to pray. "God! Give me the answers or at least spare me from such questions". God never heeded. So my mind started taking a different route. It all started in my early forties.

Though it started so explicitly at such an 'old' age, 'the beginning' of questions was from very early age too. In our childhood catechism classes, we were always discouraged to poke our noses to find answers or explanations on some of the religious dogmas and faiths. Any normal thinking person would have some questions raised in his mind when he is taught one of the very important - and very elusive - dogmas, the Holy Trinity. I too had it my early days. The list of course grew longer as time went by. The list has:

·         Holy Trinity
·         Resurrection
·         Who is the Christian god - the Father or Jesus, his only begotten son?
·         Parthenogenetic birth of Jesus
·         Communion becoming the Flesh of Jesus during a mass
·         How come a merciful god could create an eternal Hell, to punish sinful souls?
·         Human sacrifice Father wanted from Abraham.
·         Story of Abraham and his wife, Sara.
·         Some interesting and some "nasty" stories in OT.
·         The fearful, vengeful, jealousy and tooth-for-tooth God of OT.
·         Is there anything like fate?
·         The forbidden fruit of Eden.
                                            And lastly ...

QUESTIONS ON
FREE  WILL OF MAN
&
OMNISCIENCE OF GOD

Anybody who questions any of the above is always looked down by theists. Probably the only reason for their ire could be the uneasiness we put them in. Though Islamists say that they have answers for all questions from their Holy book they would be evasive if we ask them about 'fate'. Their answer usually is fate is Allah's matter or Allah's concern. Christianity goes against very heavily on such non-believers who raise such questions. “The god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ” (2 Corinthians 4:4). That is the punishment (?!) for the unbelievers in Christianity.


FREE WILL

Matthew 10:30   And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 

Luke 12:7   Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
The two quotes are from the New Testament. So according to Christianity God is an all-knowing entity: that is omnipresent and omnipotent.  Omniscient in toto.

Usually this is followed with a simple question. God ordered Adam that the fruit of knowledge should not be eaten. Adam ate it. He had sinned. God became furious but did not know (!) where Adam was. But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you? (Gen 3 : 7) ....   He (God) said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”  (Gen 3: 11)] 

The questions:
·         Did God know that Adam would not abide his command?
·         If yes, then why did He give that command to Adam?
These questions are raised against the omniscience of God. Had He known why did he give that order. Had he been omniscient Adam could not have done that. So the story goes on ... with so many added questions.

Such a discussion had been going on for very long, probably it started along with earliest first believers. All along so many interpretations or explanations have been provided by many theologians. Some of them are as follows - with my comment within brackets.:
There is an apparent contradiction between God's omniscience and free will. This problem is formally described as a paradox of free will or theological fatalism. This contends that omniscience and free will are incompatible .
Augustine proposed that evil could not exist within God, nor be created by God, and is instead a by-product of God's creativity. ... He believed that this evil will, present in the human soul, was a corruption of the will given to humans by God, making suffering a just punishment for the sin of humans. (God cannot create evil; but evil could be a by-product ...looks very funny. Sounds so illogical.)

Christians who were influenced by the teachings of Jacobus Arminius (such as Methodists) believe that while God is all-knowing and he still gives them the ability to choose or not choose everything, regardless of whether there are any internal or external factors contributing to that choice. (if so, does god know what the man would do? Adam's case may be cited here.)

The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church asserts that "Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will". It goes on to say that "God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel. (If so man is not under god's control; so god is not omnipotent?)

The above said interpretations have not given a direct and correct answer. They were mostly beating around the bush and very much verbose. My contention has always been that no religion can answer rational questions. When god has said that even hairs on a person's head are numbered it simply means god is omnpotent and all that happens in our lives were all under his control. In that case, there is no space for free will. Assuming that god has given free will and man can handle things all by himself, then god cannot be omnipresent, since god may not know what the man would do. It was like Adam- God story. God said no to a fruit; but Adam ate that; then god comes to know; then curses mankind to a hard and painful life.

So the question still stands strong: can omniscience and free will co-exist? The answer is simply "no"!

An extra information on free will in Islam: 

P.S.:     Disputes about free will in Islam began with the Mu'tazili vs Hanbali disputes, with the Mu'tazili arguing that humans had qadar, the capacity to do right or wrong, and thus deserved the reward or punishment they received, whereas Hanbali insisted on God's jabr, or total power and initiative in managing all events.


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